Talking Saints Go to Prison

Talking Saints Go to Prison Graphic

HELENA – The Carroll College Talking Saints sent two team members to prison – and they even won a prize for spending a day inside the gates.

Senior Kelsie Watkins of Snohomish, Washington, and first-year Hellie Badaruddin of Missoula, competed at the Oregon State Penitentiary Capital Toastmasters Debate Tournament in Salem, Oregon, on Saturday, October 5.

Twelve college debate teams from around the country were invited to compete against four prison teams. The schools included the University of Miami, Kansas State University, Claremont College, plus eight teams from the Northwest.

Badaruddin, despite being one of the youngest competitors, was named top speaker of the tournament. The tournament was won by a team from Willamette University.

But the day wasn’t about wins and losses.

“It was truly a wonderful experience for both of us,” said Watkins. “A lot of what I knew about prisons embarrassingly enough came from stereotypes and generalizations about prisoners but this tournament showed us a side of prisons most people don't get a chance to see. People who had some tough times but are now working to learn and grow and engage with others through debate.”

Eight of the men at the Oregon State Prison debated, while another 50 or so watched and cheered. In every round, the Carroll team had a dozen or more observers.

There was a lot of time between rounds for the students to talk to these men – about almost anything.

“It was a phenomenal experience. They were so excited to have us there,” said Badaruddin. “I know I’ve been given a pretty blessed life with lots of opportunities most people don’t get. The whole experience was a good reminder how grateful I need to be.”

The Carroll students noticed how the men referred to their lives.

“When they were describing why they were in prison, they would use the term ‘I fell.’”, said Badaruddin. “‘I fell and I made a mistake and things went wrong.’”

As the day progressed, the students began to forget where they were and just began to make connections and enjoy the experience.

“A lot of times it was easy to forget that they were inmates,” said Badaruddin. “They were easy to talk to and really kind. We’d talk about every day stuff, what we did for fun. We didn’t talk about prison.”

It was the similarities that struck the Carroll students, more than the differences.

“I was really taken aback by how similar they were to me, how human they were,” said Badaruddin. “We were probably interacting with people who did some pretty bad things but while we were there we never considered that very much. I was really surprised at how much fun it was. So much less intense than college tournaments.”

When the day ended, both those who stayed behind and those who could leave, were sad.

“Everybody was disappointed that the day was over,” said Badaruddin. “We went around and said goodbye to the inmates we had met. They were so grateful we had come. You could tell everybody was bummed out that it was over, that we were leaving. One of them told me ‘This is my favorite day, the best day.’”

Badaruddin was already considering a career in criminal justice and this experienced reaffirmed that.

“I’d love to keep engaging with these populations,” she said. “I’d love to do more service work.”

Coach Brent Northup says trips like this are at the heart of what a liberal arts education should be about.

“Both Hellie and Kelsie said this was a transformational experience,” said coach Brent Northup. “The debaters at the prison were trained by a Toastmaster’s club and the Lewis & Clark College debate coach on the site in preparation for this annual competition. The competition was keen but the purpose went far beyond wins and losses. The event is an educational prison outreach program. The event is all about social justice, breaking down stereotypes and building bridges between college students and the residents of the penitentiary.

“Carroll is a college dedicated to social justice and the transformation of students. This tournament at the penitentiary puts debate skills to use in service to others – to make connections and to build better communities. We’ve sent teams three times and each time they come back saying it may have been the most fulfilling experience in all their years of college. We’re happy to send the Talking Saints to prison and will do so again.”